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[Lono]

Not sure how many people on this board watch both The Wire and The Sopranos. This is a bit of a long read (I had a little time to kill), but I urge you to check it out it if you have interest in either show. I know for a fact that Quinny and CK1 are fans of each...


When I first discovered The Sopranos, its ingenuity hit me like a thunderclap. So affected was I by the show that I watched the first four seasons in approximately two weeks. Episode by episode, season by season, I ripped through the DVD's like they were manna from a digital Pez Dispenser.

This is precisely why it now pains me to the point of sacrilege to say that The Wire is in truth the better show.

Disagree? Admittedly, it's not exactly the most accessible argument out there. After all, I do not deny The Sopranos' greatness even a little bit. For me to say that The Wire is the superior program is essentially tantamount to saying that Walter Payton was a better running back than Emmitt Smith. When greatness reaches such spiraling heights, it is difficult for us groundlings to tell any difference between the respective entities that occupy the realm.

And still, I know in my mind and marrow that The Wire is better. You should rightly ask, how do I know?

Easy. The Wire is more important, more palpable, and more real. For all its splendor, The Sopranos is really just a fantasy show about a world (the mafia) that we have neither access to nor knowledge of. We look at it from behind the glass of the TV set, but we do not touch it. The Wire, on the other hand, with its tales of drug addiction, police and politcal corruption, crumbling institutions of education, and the impact that all of these have on poverty stricken communuties (and vice versa) is absolutely staggering in the accuracy of its portrayal. Say what you want about The Sopranos being the bigger bang for your HBO buck, but it is not real. Not like The Wire is, anyway.

The writing on The Wire is also better. Serious fans of the show will no doubt note the vast network of character mirrorings and parallels that runs throughout the series. From Stringer to Colvin, Bubs to Prez, Michael Lee to Chris Paltrow, McNulty, to Freamon, to Daniels, the worlds of The Wire overlap in brilliant fashion. If you look for it, you will find that each character and organization on the show has some sort of mirror that is deliciously ironic.

Another point to consider is that no show has managed to recreate itself the way The Wire has. Seasons One through Four are WILDLY different from one another. How does one go to a show that is about the culture of the streets, to the culture of shipping docks, stevedores, and longshoremen, to the culture of City Hall, and lastly to the culture of the educational system? Such transformations are simply not found in the lollypop and sugar-sweet nature of modern TV. Moreover, to pull it all off with such strength and grace is nothing short of staggering.

Finally, one must ask themselves which show they would watch first if they were presented with a new episode of each. As was previously mentioned, it is difficult to separate such lofty levels of greatness, particularly through the first three seaons of each program. However, the fourth season of The Wire is so far and away better than season four of The Sopranos that it verges on the ridiculous. How many shows truly get better with each new season? Many feel that The Sopranos was never better than it was during that first magical season, but The Wire has improved in excitement, interest, and depth throughout.

If given my proverbial druthers, I would watch The Wire. It's just better entertainment and tastier food for thought.
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[CK1]

Excellent post Lono. I have to believe that your reflecting on the greatness of this show was sparked by the recent incredible 10th episode of this season. I got to thinking about how excellent this show is too.

Since I have not seen every movie or television show ever made, I may not be fully qualified to say this, but I feel like The Wire is the greatest production in the history of the big screen or the small screen. Someone who has not scene the show would chalk this up as hyperbole. After watching the show, however, that person would be so profoundly affected by it that they would at least understand our sentiments, even if they didn't totally agree.

While I agree with 99 percent of your post, the only thing I'll disagree with is that I don't think it's fair to consider The Wire's realism as a reason that The Wire is better than The Sopranos. I don't think it was ever David Chase's or any of the writers' intention to make a show renowned for it's realism, as is the case with The Wire. I think the whole mafia angle is an exaggerated vehicle to illustrate the dynamics of relationships among family and friends.

When I am immersed in a season of The Sopranos, I feel like The Sopranos is better. When I am immersed in a season of The Wire, as I am now, I feel like that is the better show. This season has been so good, however, that I may have made my final decision.

"If you look for it, you will find that each character and organization on the show has some sort of mirror that is deliciously ironic."
This is one of the things that makes this show as good or better than anything else on TV. The Wire's flow, tightness, and detail of its plots are advantages over The Sopranos. The Wire is more realistic and more relevant, if you want to consider these as advantages. I always thought that The Sopranos holds distinct advantages in terms of character development, relationship dynamics, and humor. Now that I am into a season of The Wire, though, I am reminded that it has its funny moments too. As far as character development, I think The Wire has bridged that gap.***Mild Wire spoilers ahead*** We have seen the some serious development of characters from season one. McNulty, Carver, Daniels, and Bubs (more like degeneration, especially with this last very sad episode). Also, we have met the kids in this season, and they serve as somewhat of a "before" for other characters that have come and gone since season one.

As you said, it's splitting hairs when you are talking about two shows this great. Come March, or whenever the hell they decide to run The Sopranos, we'll probably write long-ass posts about why The Sopranos is the best show on TV.

By the way, Lono, I covered your alma motter this week. I was trying to figure out ways to incorporate you into the article. I was going to mention that Frankford is going for its fifth title in the post-Lon era. Also, I could have listed notable Frankford alumnii, such as Pooh Richardson, Eddie Gaskins, Blair Thomas (I think), and Lono, but I decided against it.

[Lono]

Would you believe I actually had a class called "Sports Class" with Eddie Gaskins? He was a nice enough kid, it seemed, but he really didn't give a shit about school.

Anyway, your comment about Chase not intending for The Sopranos to be realistic is dead-on. Looking back, I was perhaps tendering an unfair comparison in that regard. Additionally, I also was a bit off-base in saying that The Sopranos is a show about the mafia. True fans, as you point out, can make the distinction that the mafia is just a vehicle for relaying tales of "the human condition," or whatever you would like to call it.

But still... watching this last season of The Sopranos did not make me feel like I was watching "the greatest show ever." In fact, I was left feeling a bit empty after the majority of the episodes, and by extension, the season as a whole. I felt the same way with the fifth season, with the exception of a few very good episodes. Strangely enough, the season that people dissed the most (season four) is a season that I actually liked a lot, so take my views for what they're worth.

The point I'm trying to make is that The Wire does not let me down. Every week I tune in to see greatness and I am not dissapointed. It's really just a personal judgement in the end, but I feel that many people are somewhat down on The Sopranos right now.

As an aside, the scene in Ep. 10 where Chris beats Michael's father to death is one of the most emotionally gut-wrenching things I have ever seen. Chris hardly says anything, but when he proceeds to beating him with a fury that is completely unmatched (did you hear those desperate grunts he was making while beating him?), the point is made clear: He, too, was molested as a child and is exacting his own measure of revenge against a horrific childhood. But the GREAT thing about The Wire is that they never say it directly. For the show's astute fans, they don't have to.

Can't wait for Ep. 11....
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[CK1]

Yeah, that was powerful stuff. I gathered the same thing about Chris. His unrelenting fury coupled with the confused look on Snoop's face said it all. Interesting that, throughout the season, Chris promised several of his victims a "quick death." Michael's father (I thought he was only Bug's father, but you could be right) certainly didn't get a quick death. This reminds me of early in the season when Michael refused to take the money. He said something to the effect of "I ain't into owin' ni**as for sh*t." Now, since he had nowhere else to turn, he owes them. Frankly, he didn't seem too conflicted about what he has done. He seemed proud. I think were starting to see the path he's taking.

As far as The Sopranos goes, you're right, the show doesn't exude greatness as it used to and as The Wire does. After three episodes of season 6, I thought we were in for the best season yet. That obviously didn't happen. Since both shows are better watching in an entire season in two or three sessions rather than once per week, I am hoping that a re-watch of season 6 will give me a greater appreciation for it.

Other observations from this season of The Wire (spoilers):

It appears that Bubs is close to the end of the line. Very sad stuff. In the last episode, he appears to be worn down and to have given up. . I think an emmy nod is in order for the actor who plays him.

Although Michael is focused on the most of the kids, Namond's story line is equally as intriguing. His reluctance reminds me of D'angelo, except he is weaker than D yet talks an even bigger game. Some of that stuff in the classroom with Colvin and the "corner kids" is the most profound stuff I've ever seen on tv.

Carcetti is the new McNulty. Both appears to be idealists, but are really in it for selfish reasons. Great at their job, they want to be credited with saving the city and be "hoisted on the people's shoulders." Both are better at their job than keeping things in order in their own lives. McNulty will fall back into his old ways next season, if not by the end of this season.

How good was Clay Davis in the last episode? What a scumbag, playing both sides of the fence.

[Lono]

You're right about him being Bug's father and not Michael's... I meant to say stepfather.

Good observation on McNulty and Carcetti. There are a ton of character parallels, but this is one that I have not picked up on. Carcetti is very likely to experience the same emotional arc as McNulty; talented, completely swept up in his pursuit of excellence, but an absolute borderline personality. The only difference is that McNulty was but a minor cog in a massive machine, while Carcetti is undeniably the largest cog. Two quotes in particular stand out:

McNulty: "Fuck the bosses."
Burrell (to Carcetti): "We all serve at the measure of the mayor."

How Carcetti handles this power remains to be seen, but I cannot forget what Young Tony and Royce said about being glad to leave the office of mayor. Yeah, Carcetti's likely to go the McNulty road and become a burnout. I just don't think there's enough time left in the series to see if he can be redeemed like McNulty apparently has.

I don't know if I agree with you on Bubbs. I kind of think he's the survivor on the show. The streets are vicious and nobody lasts for very long, but Bubbs has been an absolute fixture. In that sense, Bubbs and Bode have a lot in common. The problem is that I am getting a bad feeling about Bode after Ep. 10. He simply is not able to process the ruthlessness with which Marlo conducts his business. At least with Stringer and Avon, there was a certain moral gravity, benevolence, and charm about them that he could respect. With Marlo, there is business and only business.

By the way, here's a link to a terrific blog dedicated to analysis of The Wire. I'm sure you'll love it: http://heavenandhere.wordpress.com/
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[Lono]

I forgot to add:

My prediction for the kids is as follows:

-Michael obviously becomes involved in "the game." He's a moral kid, so maybe he'll be more on the Stringer and Avon side than on the Marlo side. In truth, I think it's likely that the writers intended him to be a prequel of sorts to String and Avon.
-Randy survives being the apparent target of "snitching," but is sent even deeper into the foster care system, as he will no longer be able to live in Baltimore.
-Namond will be like D'Angelo, only he'll get out of the game and survive. But you're right; he has nowhere near the depth of character that D. has.
-Dukie is the one headed for greenest pastures of all. His emotional growth has out-paced that of any of the kids this season. However, it seems that Prez may lose his job or get into big trouble over some of the bureaucratic boundaries that he has crossed. He's a classic tragic hero... he finds his calling in life only to lose it over bullshit.

We'll see how close I am on these.[/list]
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[tqatsju]

I think with your guys posts on this message board, that we may have become a better blog about the Wire.....Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

[CK1]

I agree with you about the fate of Michael and Namond. I also agree about the other two. However, since Randy and Dukie are both seem a bit smarter and a bit more business savvy than Michael, and since Michael seems protectived than them, that one of them will become Stringer to Michael's Avon. I lean more towards Dukie. I could be wrong about this, because if Michael were to become a kingpin in the future, those days are still a long waf off.

[CK1]

....meant to write "Micael seems protective of them"

[DLon]

Quick point, CK1.

It looks like your analysis of the Carcetti / McNulty connection was dead-on. Did you see the look on McNulty's face at Carcetti's conference? It said it all.

I fully expect him to be a MUCH bigger part of the fifth and final season than he has been in the current.

And one last thing... The Sopranos has bumped their final run from eight to nine episodes.

[CK1]

That's great, but how long does that push the new season back? 8 months? A year? Lol.

Yeah, that zooming in on McNulty, a signature of late-season Wire episodes, was a great scene. Another great episode. Funny how Herc's career hangs in the balance of the bureaucratic tug of war.

[CK1]

One more thing. When you say you expect him to become a bigger part, you mean McNulty, right? I also think the same because I think it is evident and because I've actually heard that. You know he's gonna scumbag Beadie because of the exchange he had with his ex-wife the previous episode. Carcett is going to inspire a re-awakening for McNulty, and before you know it, he'll completely be back to his old ways.

[Lono]

I think it's set in stone that The Sopranos will start in early April.

As far as McNulty is concerned, the reason that he has a scaled-down role this season is because he (Dominic West) thought he had a realistic shot at being the next James Bond. As such, he asked the writers to include him in The Wire, but to do so in a lesser manner.

It's amazing how good this season has been in his relative absence, but he is a great character and I look forward to him being back in the fold.
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[CK1]

In real life, the actor who play McNulty has a heavy British accent. I'm sure you remember back in season 2 when the detail raided the brothel, he had to use a British accent. Ironically, the detail joked with him about having a shitty British accent. Also, the actor who plays Stringer has a heavy Britsh accent as well. With both actors, you can occasionally notice their accents slipping out on the show. Not often, but once in a while.

[JCa$$]

At the very top of this page, Lono mentioned that something hit him like a, 'thundercap.' Maybe I'm a little f'd up, but what the hell is a thundercap? Are you sure you didn't mean, 'ThunderCAT?'

Thundercats, OOOOOOOHH!!!
_________________
"It was a group grope..."
-Carpie, to Bob Crane

[Lono]

"Thunderclap." But upon further review, maybe I should have just said it hit me like "the clap." That would have been much more illustrative.

Thanks for reading.
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[Lono]

By the way, CK1...

I thought McNulty and Stringer did a great job of hiding their accents. Carcetti, on the other hand, is a complete fucking mess. He's supposed to be an Italian guy from around the port area of Baltimore, but you can hear his Irish brogue in nearly every scene that he's in.

There aren't many things about The Wire that annoy me, but that's one of them.
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[CK1]

Very true. I think he otherwise plays the part well, but you frequently hear his brogue. I agree with you on McNulty and Stringer. For the most part, they do a good job, but there were a few isolated occasions. I don't know if you have the season one DVD set, but if you do, check out the scene in which Stringer is yelling at his print shop workers about wanting the shop to run like a normal business and not just some front. It seems like he even forgets that he is supposed to be hiding his accent.

[Lono]

Episode 49... How fucking good was it? It's amazing that a season that is without Stringer and basically without McNulty could be The Wire's best yet. Anyway, here's a brief observation that I've made:

Michael is a prequel to Avon Barksdale through and through. He has developed a keen knack for “soldiering,” as Avon would put it, for when action is necessary, he can act with a ruthlessness that is truly astonishing. In so many senses, he is the perfect animal for the streets.

But alas, Michael also has a heart. Check out his empathy for Dukie, his standing up for Randy the Snitch, or his willingness to stay with Cutty until an ambulence arrived. Knowing that these entities are not a part of the game, he treats them with decency, kindness, and respect. However, his beating of Namond because he was not “street” enough is entirely reminiscent of how Avon felt about Stringer. All things being equal, and all being a part of the game means reprisal or ruffian treatment is possible against a poser such as Namond, while it is classless or even cowardly against the others.

And finally, just remember the likeness that looms large over Cutty’s gym: A young Avon in boxing posture. Unfortunately, the tragic irony here is that Avon’s contribution to the gym was apparently not enough to save the wayward Michael. Instead, Avon is just the twisted father of future Avon-archetypes.
_________________
"I blame that Minnie Matrone. She's a malignant cunt!"

-Paulie Walnuts

[CK1]

The Avon poster on the wall, e reminder that his contribution was not enough to save the likes of Michael....That is an incredible piece of symbolism that I did not catch.

As for Michael, I agree that he does have a heart, but his ability to show compassion seems to be waining with each week. True, he was willing to stay with Cutty and wait for an "ambo." I think that scene was put in there more for symbolism than to show Michael's compassion. As you pointed out, this season has been a struggle for Michael's soul between Marlo, Cutty, and Prez, with Prez never really having much of a chance. For some reason, that scene reminded me of the symbolism in Platoon....Platoon Spoilers.... A struggle for Christopher's soul between Sgt. Barnes and Sgt. Elias, with Elias being left out in the field being symbolic of the dying of Chris's good side. Similar situation here, with Michael considering staying with Cutty, and then deciding to bail.

I don't really know what to make of this, but wasn't the scene with Michael running through the abandoned building eerily similar to Stringer being chased last season. Since it was only practice anyway, there is probably nothing to it, but it just seemed like it was intentionally reminiscent.

Ashame about Sherard, if that's how you spell his name. We hardly knew ya. I thought he was under-developed, but I think he was more there to show another unsuccessful attempt by Bubs' at being a mentor, with this situation hitting closer to home than Johnny. He has failed at his attempts at being an entrepreneur, a "cop," a mentor, and a surrogate father. He frankly seems worn down. We'll see what happens.

Looking foward to the last episode. I hope it ends with another great montage, a season-ending signature for The Wire. It might be cliche, but it's still that best way to end the season. The Sopranos did this only once and it was the best ending of any of the show's six seasons.